Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
head south on Sunday is scrubbed.

So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
not explored very much.

While we're there we'd like to show the kids some Civil War
battlefields, some aviation museums -- the usual tourist stuff.
Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
over to Texas along the Gulf coast, once the weather clears.

Any recommendations?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
> a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
> head south on Sunday is scrubbed.

Another VFR trip scrubbed, eh, Jay? :-)

I just couldn't resist!

Matt

Get your butt to Jamestown VA, not far from your planned stop.

Battlefields, history, great waterfront.

There's a biker's bar there right on the waterfront, and this is
serious -- don't miss it. The atmosphere (there is cigarette smoke, be
warned) is great fun, you and your kids will see very professional
looking people get out and fire up their Harleys, and others' inked
and tatooed, get in their minivans and drive away.

It's not far from there to Williamsburg. Don't bother getting a
ticket, park and walk through the area, visit old houses, enjoy the
history.

Buy some VA peanuts at the Peanut Shio! You'll never buy Planters
again.

Go look at the fleet at Newport News.


Wilmington NC is worth a stop, visit the Battleship, walk through some
old cotton factories.

On the way south stop in Charleston SC. Get down near the waterfront
and learn what a charming Southern City is really like. It's almost as
nice as Chapel Hill NC. Maybe nicer.

You'll be passing over New Orleans as well. The French Quarter will be
alive and well, even during Lent.

Follow my advice and you won't have time for TX!
On Mar 10, 6:24 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
> a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
> head south on Sunday is scrubbed.
>
> So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
> The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
> there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
> not explored very much.
>
> While we're there we'd like to show the kids some Civil War
> battlefields, some aviation museums -- the usual tourist stuff.
> Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
> over to Texas along the Gulf coast, once the weather clears.
>
> Any recommendations?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 10, 6:24 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
> a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
> head south on Sunday is scrubbed.
>
> So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
> The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
> there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
> not explored very much.
>
> While we're there we'd like to show the kids some Civil War
> battlefields, some aviation museums -- the usual tourist stuff.
> Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
> over to Texas along the Gulf coast, once the weather clears.
>
> Any recommendations?

http://www.cr.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/NCmap.htm

This is a link to Civil War battles in NC. To read about the ones in
the coastal area, they appear to be minor engagements. If I wanted to
recommend a battlefield I've visited...that would be Antietam
(Sharpsburg MD).

GrtArtiste

On 10 Mar 2007 15:24:35 -0800, "Jay Honeck" >
wrote:

>Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
>a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
>head south on Sunday is scrubbed.
>
>So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
>The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
>there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
>not explored very much.
>
>While we're there we'd like to show the kids some Civil War
>battlefields, some aviation museums -- the usual tourist stuff.
>Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
>over to Texas along the Gulf coast, once the weather clears.
>
>Any recommendations?

I live in Chesapeake, VA. There is a lot here in SE Virginia.

The deciding battles of the War of Northern Aggression were right up
the road in Petersburg and Richmond. In Newport News, the Mariners
Museum just opened a major exhibit on the battle of the Ironclads. The
Turret of the Monitor has been raised and it there.

Yorktown is where the American Revolution ended.

Of course, there is also the Battleship Wisconsin docked in Norfolk.
And the Air and Space Museum in Hampton.

Let me know when you'll be in the area and what you are interested in
seeing.

Don



Virginia - the only State with a flag rated
"R" for partial nudity and graphic violence.

> Another VFR trip scrubbed, eh, Jay? :-)
>
> I just couldn't resist!

If the prog charts are to be believed, there is no way I would fly my
family into the crap that's coming into Texas, IFR or VFR. Not in
Atlas.

Not to mention, of course, that we're going on vacation to find *nice*
weather.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> Of course, there is also the Battleship Wisconsin docked in Norfolk.
> And the Air and Space Museum in Hampton.

Thanks, Don. I presume there are tours of the Wisconsin? I'd love to
see that....

Sounds like we'll be heading to Virginia after Kitty Hawk!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

>So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.

By all means spend a day (at least) at Colonial Williamsburg on the
way to Kitty Hawk. Wonderful place to visit and a marvelous
educational opportunity for your kids.

Avoid the Norfolk area; it's very busy. If you must get involved,
call "Mankiller" (it's on the charts) for clearance, then fly down
the beach to Kitty Hawk.

You can land at "First Flight" airport, right next to the Wright
monument, but you can't RON. Dare County airport, at Manteo, only a
couple of miles away, is the best place to RON, get fuel, rent a car,
and so forth.

Comfort Inn at Nag's Head, between Manteo and Kitty Hawk, has very
reasonable rates mid-December; don't know about now.

If you leave to the south, fly down the beach to Hatteras Light. Then
west to Cape Lookout Light. Land at Beaufort. See the beautiful
town. Get dope on how to get past Cherry Point Marine Corps Air
Station so you can continue along the beach to Wilmington, if you want
to see the battleship North Carolina and go to Charleston, as someone
recommended. It is a gorgeous city.

So is Savannah. Folks there celebrate St. Patrick's day for an entire
week, btw; you're just in time. You can get Yuengling Lager (from the
oldest brewery firm in the U.S., based in PA) on draft. at both
cities. Try it; you'll like it.

>While we're there we'd like to show the kids ..... some aviation museums....

The Eighth Air Force Museum is just north of Savannah. Damn few
airplanes but a great collection of WW II stuff.

>Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
>over to Texas along the Gulf coast,

Don't miss the Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola. It's better than
the NASM, Dulles included. Second only to Wright-Pat.

Any questions? Have a great trip.

vince norris

I meant to say Yorktown, not Jamestown.

On Mar 10, 7:27 pm, "Tony" > wrote:
> Get your butt to Jamestown VA, not far from your planned stop.
>
> Battlefields, history, great waterfront.
>
> There's a biker's bar there right on the waterfront, and this is
> serious -- don't miss it. The atmosphere (there is cigarette smoke, be
> warned) is great fun, you and your kids will see very professional
> looking people get out and fire up their Harleys, and others' inked
> and tatooed, get in their minivans and drive away.
>
> It's not far from there to Williamsburg. Don't bother getting a
> ticket, park and walk through the area, visit old houses, enjoy the
> history.
>
> Buy some VA peanuts at the Peanut Shio! You'll never buy Planters
> again.
>
> Go look at the fleet at Newport News.
>
> Wilmington NC is worth a stop, visit the Battleship, walk through some
> old cotton factories.
>
> On the way south stop in Charleston SC. Get down near the waterfront
> and learn what a charming Southern City is really like. It's almost as
> nice as Chapel Hill NC. Maybe nicer.
>
> You'll be passing over New Orleans as well. The French Quarter will be
> alive and well, even during Lent.
>
> Follow my advice and you won't have time for TX!
> On Mar 10, 6:24 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Looking at the prog charts for the next several days, Texas looks like
> > a mess. Moderate to heavy rains, thunderstorms, yuck. Our plan to
> > head south on Sunday is scrubbed.
>
> > So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
> > The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
> > there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
> > not explored very much.
>
> > While we're there we'd like to show the kids some Civil War
> > battlefields, some aviation museums -- the usual tourist stuff.
> > Figure we'll be in the area for a few days, and then maybe try to fly
> > over to Texas along the Gulf coast, once the weather clears.
>
> > Any recommendations?
> > --
> > Jay Honeck
> > Iowa City, IA
> > Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> > "Your Aviation Destination"- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> By all means spend a day (at least) at Colonial Williamsburg on the
> way to Kitty Hawk. Wonderful place to visit and a marvelous
> educational opportunity for your kids.

We're planning to spend the night tomorrow night at Beckley, West
Virginia -- a place we chose completely at random as being more than
half-way to Kitty Hawk. Don't know anything about the place, but
we figure to only sleep there unless someone tells us it's known
for...something.

> Avoid the Norfolk area; it's very busy. If you must get involved,
> call "Mankiller" (it's on the charts) for clearance, then fly down
> the beach to Kitty Hawk.

Yeah, we'll mosey down the beach, weather permitting.

> You can land at "First Flight" airport, right next to the Wright
> monument, but you can't RON. Dare County airport, at Manteo, only a
> couple of miles away, is the best place to RON, get fuel, rent a car,
> and so forth.

Thanks for the tip!

> Comfort Inn at Nag's Head, between Manteo and Kitty Hawk, has very
> reasonable rates mid-December; don't know about now.

Anything else to see in the area besides the Wright Bros Memorial?

> Don't miss the Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola. It's better than
> the NASM, Dulles included. Second only to Wright-Pat.

High praise, indeed. In fact, if the "go back to Texas" part of our
plan comes to pass, Pensacola is on my list of places to stop on this
trip -- what's the best GA airport to use around there?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
> The progs look great for at least three or four days, and I'm sure
> there is plenty to see and do in the Southeast -- an area that we have
> not explored very much.
>
> Any recommendations?

Jockey's Ridge. It is dunes; of the type that the Wrights likely used to
try their early gliders.

As a matter of fact, the parks department runs a hang-glider class, from the
dunes, there. My daughter and son-in-law took it a couple weeks ago, and
had a great time. You get the morning to run down the dunes and get briefly
airborne-solo! That might be fun for _all_ of you to try.

Also, if you can spare the time, go and see the Cape Hatteras Light House,
<http://www.hatteras-nc.com/light/> one of the most famous in the world. It
is the one that they moved 2900 feet, away from the eroding beach.
<http://www.nps.gov/archive/caha/lrp.htm > It was an engineering marvel,
just figuring out how to do it. Unfortunately, you can only go up in it,
from April to October. The keepers' house is there, and open, and has been
converted into a small museum. It has a lot of pictures, facts and
artifacts. You get a pretty good feel what lighthouses an life-saver
stations are all about, from the displays.

There are many small airports, with nice long runways at most, all up and
down the seashore, and the barrier islands. Do some googling to find the
things you want to do, then pop in and do them.
--
Jim in NC

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> Of course, there is also the Battleship Wisconsin docked in Norfolk.
>> And the Air and Space Museum in Hampton.
>
> Thanks, Don. I presume there are tours of the Wisconsin? I'd love to
> see that....
>
> Sounds like we'll be heading to Virginia after Kitty Hawk!

If there is not, the Wisconsin's sister ship, the North Carolina, is at
Wilmington, and does offer tours, and is a whole lot closer.
--
Jim in NC

Jay, see:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/travel/11hours.1.html?th&emc=th

"Jay Honeck" > wrote
>
> Anything else to see in the area besides the Wright Bros Memorial?

Jockey's Ridge. Large Dunes. Very close to Wright Bros. Memorial.

>> Don't miss the Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola. It's better than
>> the NASM, Dulles included. Second only to Wright-Pat.

It is fantastic. I won't begin to compare one to another. I know I didn't
have enough time, while there.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote
> >
> > Anything else to see in the area besides the Wright Bros Memorial?
>
> Jockey's Ridge. Large Dunes. Very close to Wright Bros. Memorial.

Plus, you can take a hang gliding lesson while you're there.

BDS

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > By all means spend a day (at least) at Colonial Williamsburg on the
> > way to Kitty Hawk. Wonderful place to visit and a marvelous
> > educational opportunity for your kids.

> We're planning to spend the night tomorrow night at Beckley, West
> Virginia -- a place we chose completely at random as being more than
> half-way to Kitty Hawk. Don't know anything about the place, but
> we figure to only sleep there unless someone tells us it's known
> for...something.

BKW was pretty empty the only time I visited. I'd recommend LWB (Lewisburg)
just a little east of there. Friendly folks, nice new terminal. Restaurant
on field, etc.

Although the Outer Banks don't have much Civil War history, it's still
one of the most beautiful areas to visit. Just south of FFA is Hatteras.
Worth a turn or two around the lighthouse. It's now about half a mile
inland from where it was built. And no, it wasn't relocated via hurricane. :)

One of my favorite places to go is Ocracoke. W95. Some people don't like
going there due to smallish runway and sometimes gusty winds, but it's
really not that bad and the only other way to the island is a pretty long
ferry boat ride. Make some calls as you approach to Howard's Pub. If they
don't answer, just call at the pay phone (252) 928-4441. They'll sent out
a little cart to take you to some excellent food and cool location. If you
don't mind walking, it's maybe a half mile away and another half mile
past that to the village. Not many people go there in the winter, so it's
pretty empty now, but still worth a visit. Be careful of all the restricted
areas. If you follow the Outer Banks though, you don't have to talk to any
one.

--
Don Poitras

Enroute to First Flight...

Ashville NC
Fly the "gap" at 4000 feet MSL. Go visit the Biltmore.

Elizabetown NC
Stop and see the WW2 blimp hangars (are they still there?)

First Flight
Fly in spend the day. Fly across the bay to Dare County Airport. Spend
the night, rent a care, drive Naggs Head and Cape Hatteras.

Charleston SC
Enjoy the charm of the Old South.

Savannah GA
More Old South charm. Spend the night at one of the hotels in the old
riverfront. The area has been rehabed and has excellent restaurants and
nightly entertainment. There is free outdoors entertainment as you
stroll the riverfront.

Pennsacola FL
Museum of Naval Aviation (contact Tom Callahan ? from the binaries group
for local information).

Cedar Key FL
Lunch

Mobile AL
Lunch or dinner with Dan Luke

Huntsville AL
NASA propulsion facilities

A few notes from when I lived in Chapel Hill and flew an Ercoupe a few
years ago.

1. My favorite place in the Outer Banks is Ocracoke (as mentioned
above), the airstrip is not bad but bring tie-downs as there never
were any there in my time out there. Howards Pub is a fine place for
lunch, easy walking distance to stretch the legs, although it's on the
two lane highway, it's the only road around and has a huge shoulder,
so is safe. There are nicer places in town, Howards is nice for a
quick lunch. Ocracoke village is really a great place to spend a day
or two just relaxing. Really my all time favorite spot in NC (and I
lived in Chapel Hill!). The flight down the rest of the outer banks is
really quite neat to Cape Lookout, around the light and over to
Beaufort, NC which also has its charms. The Civil War fort at Fort
Macon is an interesting side trip from the Morehead City/Beaufort
area. Nice landmark to fly over as well. I can't stress enough how
different Ocracoke island is from the built up condo and vacation home
hell of Kitty Hawk and Nags Head can be!

2. There is alot of restricted/military airspace around the outer
banks, but everytime I called up Cherry Point MCAS or any of the other
radar facilities in the area for flight following (like Seymour-
Johnson AFB), they were cordial and accomodating. They all sounded
like they were 18 y.o. though! It was quite seamless in the transition
from RDU's hand off, or vice-versa.

3. I've been on the USS Wisconsin and the USS North Carolina. The
Wisconsin was still officially in mothballs (or some sort of reserve
designation) so other than walking on the main deck and poking your
head around a few places, it was closed to tourist traffic. That visit
was in December '03, so things may have changed since. The North
Carolina, berthed in Wilmington is much more comprehensive in your
ability to wander around and really explore the vast majority of the
ship. You will need several hours!!!

4. Patriots Point just outside of Charleston, S.C. is a big complex
with the centerpiece being the USS Yorktown (CV-10, not CV-5 which is
not available for tours for obvious reasons!), a destroyer, a larger
Coast Guard cutter, and a post-war sub. Another place you could spend
a whole day, and highly recommended! Having been on the USS Midway, I
thought the level of presentaion was much better on the Yorktown.
Charleston is another great town with charm in the tourist area. I
liked it alot. Take the ferry out to Ft. Sumter, although short in the
time allowed on the island itself, was well worth it. There is quite a
bit of post-war construction which has changed the looks of the place.

5. Savannah has Fort Pulaski, another massive brick fort that was
state of the art in 1861, but quickly fell to rifled artillery of a
new era. This is a National Park Service site about 20 minutes outside
of the city out near the beaches, and is interesting to look around.
My wife and I had a hotel on the riverfront, and it was really quite
neat and interesting to see the massive container ships about 100
yards outside your window. I raised my beer to a deck crewman (from
somewhere in Asia) from my balcony (which was on his same level) and
he waved back...Cool. Savannah is another great town to spend a few
days in to get the feel for the place. The squares are interesting,
the night ghost tours are neat (if you get the right person leading
it, we took more than one evening organized walk, one history, one
ghosts, great for before or after dinner).

6. I could go on and on about all the battlefield in the east to
visit, they all have interesing parts to them and the National Park
Service does a uniformly good job of presenting the history (despite
their budget issues). But the one that stands out in my mind, and I've
been to almost ALL of them at one point or another, is the one
mentioned in a previous post, which is Antietam. I got the feeling
that it was closest to its original form (unlike all the touristy
shlock at Gettysburg), not completely inundated with monuments, and
far enough away from suburbia (unlike Bull Run and Fredricksburg,
amongst the most threatened) to really get a feel for what the
battlefield was like. If I may say so, the best way to get to know
these fields is to WALK them. Not drive the usualy park service circle
tour (which I've done many times when time is short); but to really
know it is to walk it!!! Shiloh is another.

So there. My tidbits from a northerner living in the south and
spending alot of time getting to know the place. I really enjoyed
living down there.

Ryan in Madison, WI
email me if you want particulars

> A few notes from when I lived in Chapel Hill and flew an Ercoupe a few
> years ago.

<snip of great stuff>

Wow -- thanks Ryan, Jim, "John", Vincent, Don, and anyone else I'm
forgetting. Sounds like we could easily take a month just to explore
that area of the country!

The weather will dictate our schedule, as it always does, but I think
it's gonna be W. Virgina tonight, Kitty Hawk Monday, up and down the
coast Tuesday, Pensacola Wednesday....and by then, who knows? We're
like gypsies on these trips, so it doesn't do any good to think much
beyond Wednesday...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mar 10, 10:31 pm, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:

> We're planning to spend the night tomorrow night at Beckley, West
> Virginia -- a place we chose completely at random as being more than
> half-way to Kitty Hawk. Don't know anything about the place, but
> we figure to only sleep there unless someone tells us it's known
> for...something.

Only a few miles north of Beckley is the bridge over the New River
gorge. It carries US19 over the river at Hico. It's great to view from
the air.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/neri/bridge.htm

GrtArtiste

"Tony" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Get your butt to Jamestown VA, not far from your planned stop.
>
> Battlefields, history, great waterfront.
>
> There's a biker's bar there right on the waterfront, and this is
> serious -- don't miss it. The atmosphere (there is cigarette smoke, be
> warned) is great fun, you and your kids will see very professional
> looking people get out and fire up their Harleys, and others' inked
> and tatooed, get in their minivans and drive away.
>
> It's not far from there to Williamsburg. Don't bother getting a
> ticket, park and walk through the area, visit old houses, enjoy the
> history.
>
> Buy some VA peanuts at the Peanut Shio! You'll never buy Planters
> again.
>
> Go look at the fleet at Newport News.
>
>
> Wilmington NC is worth a stop, visit the Battleship, walk through some
> old cotton factories.
>
> On the way south stop in Charleston SC. Get down near the waterfront
> and learn what a charming Southern City is really like. It's almost as
> nice as Chapel Hill NC. Maybe nicer.

Charleston is incredible. Nicest people in the world, plenty of excellent
restaurants, a neat open air market, and incredible walking tours that
address the fabulous houses South of Broad Street (Where the SOB's live),
and plenty of area history including pre, during, and post Civil war.

A definite stop. I'd suggest avoiding a weekend this time of year. You
probably won't find accomodations.

>
> You'll be passing over New Orleans as well. The French Quarter will be
> alive and well, even during Lent.
>
> Follow my advice and you won't have time for TX!

KB

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> A few notes from when I lived in Chapel Hill and flew an Ercoupe a few
>> years ago.
>
> <snip of great stuff>
>
> Wow -- thanks Ryan, Jim, "John", Vincent, Don, and anyone else I'm
> forgetting. Sounds like we could easily take a month just to explore
> that area of the country!
>
> The weather will dictate our schedule, as it always does, but I think
> it's gonna be W. Virgina tonight, Kitty Hawk Monday, up and down the
> coast Tuesday, Pensacola Wednesday....and by then, who knows? We're
> like gypsies on these trips, so it doesn't do any good to think much
> beyond Wednesday...
>

If you're in the area, you'll regret not spending a full day in
Charleston...

The museum at P-cola is nice, but (IMO) it is the only reason to visit the
city. For a family, even an aviation family, there may be better
destinations unless you're gonna be in the area anyway. For instance, the
Air Force Museum at Warner Robbins, GA (Near Macon) is 2nd only to the Air
Force museum in terms of USAF (and AAC) aircraft on display. And it is
closer to Charleston and Savannah.

And, if you go to Warner Robbins, you can turn the trip back north, visit
the Aircraft Spruce store at Falcon Field near Atlanta, head NW to the Space
and Rocket museum at Huntsville, Alabama to see the only erected (IIRC)
Saturn rocket in existance.

> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

KB

On Mar 11, 5:49 am, "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> > A few notes from when I lived in Chapel Hill and flew an Ercoupe a few
> > years ago.
>
> <snip of great stuff>
>
> Wow -- thanks Ryan, Jim, "John", Vincent, Don, and anyone else I'm
> forgetting. Sounds like we could easily take a month just to explore
> that area of the country!
>
> The weather will dictate our schedule, as it always does, but I think
> it's gonna be W. Virgina tonight, Kitty Hawk Monday, up and down the
> coast Tuesday, Pensacola Wednesday....and by then, who knows? We're
> like gypsies on these trips, so it doesn't do any good to think much
> beyond Wednesday...
>
> :-)
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Last year I vacationed in the barrier islands and my favorite activity
was renting a Jeep and driving up to Corolla until the road ends and
then driving the beach and dunes and looking at the wild horses. The
local Jeep-Chrysler dealer is within a mile of Kill Devil Hills and
will deliver a car to the airport. If you do this, remember to let
some air out of the tires when you exit the road to drive on the
dunes. (But the dealer will instruct you on this.)

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> head NW to the Space and Rocket museum at Huntsville, Alabama to see the
> only erected (IIRC) Saturn rocket in existance.
>

There is more than one Saturn rocket erected here. But you are probably
referring to the Saturn V moon rocket, the largest one. Also see Mercury
capsule, SR71, space shuttle, etc. etc.

Stan

> The museum at P-cola is nice, but (IMO) it is the only reason to visit the
> city. For a family, even an aviation family, there may be better
> destinations unless you're gonna be in the area anyway. For instance, the
> Air Force Museum at Warner Robbins, GA (Near Macon) is 2nd only to the Air
> Force museum in terms of USAF (and AAC) aircraft on display. And it is
> closer to Charleston and Savannah.

I've always wanted to visit Warner-Robbins, as my parents were
stationed there for a year during World War II. This was pre-air
conditioning, and my mom always spoke of the area with both affection
and repulsion. (My dad, a "90-day-wonder", had little time to worry
about the weather.)

> And, if you go to Warner Robbins, you can turn the trip back north, visit
> the Aircraft Spruce store at Falcon Field near Atlanta, head NW to the Space
> and Rocket museum at Huntsville, Alabama to see the only erected (IIRC)
> Saturn rocket in existance.

Cool! Thanks for the suggestion. We're outta here in about an
hour...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:07:31 -0500, "Stan Prevost" > wrote:

>
>"Kyle Boatright" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>> head NW to the Space and Rocket museum at Huntsville, Alabama to see the
>> only erected (IIRC) Saturn rocket in existance.
>>
>
>There is more than one Saturn rocket erected here. But you are probably
>referring to the Saturn V moon rocket, the largest one. Also see Mercury
>capsule, SR71, space shuttle, etc. etc.

And if I recall my week at Space Camp correctly, the erected Saturn V is a
replica. They do have an actual one displayed horizontally, and some of the
"little" Saturns erected.

Ron Wanttaja

"john smith" wrote:


>
> Mobile AL
> Lunch or dinner with Dan Luke

Fried softshell crabs at the Original Oyster House...mmmmm!

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

Scarborough Inn on Roanoke Island just south of Kill Devil Hills. Run by
Rebecca Scarborough. The restaurant across the street and down a block has
the best Carolina (vinegar based) barbecue I've ever tasted. The memorial
is about fifteen minutes away. First Flight airport can handle Atlas.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Any recommendations?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

The lighthouses are magnificent.

Jim



"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Anything else to see in the area besides the Wright Bros Memorial?

"swag" > wrote

> Last year I vacationed in the barrier islands and my favorite activity
> was renting a Jeep and driving up to Corolla until the road ends and
> then driving the beach and dunes and looking at the wild horses. The
> local Jeep-Chrysler dealer is within a mile of Kill Devil Hills and
> will deliver a car to the airport. If you do this, remember to let
> some air out of the tires when you exit the road to drive on the
> dunes. (But the dealer will instruct you on this.)
>
EXCELLENT suggestion. I hope you got this in time, before you left.

Blue skies
--
Jim in NC

Jay, I'm coming into this thread late, so you may have already settled
on your plans. But ... adding to what others have posted (and for
anyone else looking for a place to visit):

Hampton Roads has =lots= to offer (Williamsburg, Newport News, York
County, Hampton, Norfolk and Virginia Beach, among other localities:
-- Touted as the "Historic Triangle"
---- 1-Yorktown Battlefield
------ including some lesser Civil War sites nearby
---- 2-Historic Williamsburg
---- 3-Jamestown Landing, and Jamestown Settlement
------ with recreations of the 3 ships that brought the first settlers
------ and they're celebrating the 300th anniversary of the landing
-- Mariner's Museum, the premier nautical museum in the U.S.
---- opened just this weekend - the Monitor exhibit
------ with artifacts recovered from the wreck site
-- Hampton Air & Space Museum
---- not the Smithsonian or Air Force museum, but some nice exhibits
-- In Norfolk and Virginia Beach
---- Nauticus with oceanography exhibits and the Wisconsin
---- Norfolk Naval Base, the largest Naval Base in the world
------ at least one aircraft carrier in port almost always
---- Virginia Beach itself

Airports?
-- Newport News/Williamsburg (PHF), Rick Aviation provides good service.
Lodging and restaurants nearby. Three miles to Yorktown, 8 miles to
Williamsburg, 16 miles to Jamestown
-- Williamsburg (JGG), nice small airport, in the middle of the Historic
Triangle. Nice daytime restaurant on the field. Two miles to Williamsburg.
-- Others on 'southside' (Norfolk [airlines] plus smaller Chesapeake
(CPK), Hampton Roads (PVG), & Suffolk (SFQ)

Going south?
-- stop at Ocracoke (W95); it's a regular for lunch
---- 1/2 mile walk to food at Howard's Pub
---- I'd expect someone will pick you up for lodging
-- Moorhead City (MRH); nice place to overnight
---- almost 'in town', interesting quaint sourthern coastal city

george
gyoung at (poppa india november november).net

>> Comfort Inn at Nag's Head, between Manteo and Kitty Hawk, has very
>> reasonable rates mid-December; don't know about now.
>
>Anything else to see in the area besides the Wright Bros Memorial?

Dare County is named for Virginia Dare, supposedly the first English
child born in the New World. Remember "Powhatan"? So there are
historical sites celebrating the first colonists, including a replica
of a square rigger sailing ship, which I suppose represents the ship
they came on.

The problem is that most of the "touristy" stuff is shut down for the
winter, so I don't know what you'll be able to find open.

The Hatteras National Seashore is "open," of course, but it's not an
ideal time to lie on the beach.
>
>> Don't miss the Naval Aviation Museum at Pensacola. It's better than
>> the NASM, Dulles included. Second only to Wright-Pat.
>
>High praise, indeed.

Well, you can tell me later whether or not you agree. As an old Naval
Aviator I may be a bit biased.

> In fact, if the "go back to Texas" part of our
>plan comes to pass, Pensacola is on my list of places to stop on this
>trip -- what's the best GA airport to use around there?

PNS provided good service last time I was there, about four years ago.

vince norris

> Airports?
> -- Newport News/Williamsburg (PHF), Rick Aviation provides good service.
> Lodging and restaurants nearby. Three miles to Yorktown, 8 miles to
> Williamsburg, 16 miles to Jamestown
> -- Williamsburg (JGG), nice small airport, in the middle of the Historic
> Triangle. Nice daytime restaurant on the field. Two miles to Williamsburg.
> -- Others on 'southside' (Norfolk [airlines] plus smaller Chesapeake
> (CPK), Hampton Roads (PVG), & Suffolk (SFQ)
>
> Going south?
> -- stop at Ocracoke (W95); it's a regular for lunch
> ---- 1/2 mile walk to food at Howard's Pub

Thanks for the tips, George.

We're in Beckley, W.V. as I'm typing this -- nice airport, nice town.
Unfortunately the rental car places at the airport close early on
Sundays, so we had to catch a cab into town -- $35 one way! I thought
I was in Chicago all over again...

Weather is lovely, and the flight was beautiful, 4 hours on the dot.
Had great steaks at a local "Outback" clone, and we're aiming for an
early launch to Kitty Hawk...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Airports?
>> -- Newport News/Williamsburg (PHF), Rick Aviation provides good service.
>> Lodging and restaurants nearby. Three miles to Yorktown, 8 miles to
>> Williamsburg, 16 miles to Jamestown
>> -- Williamsburg (JGG), nice small airport, in the middle of the Historic
>> Triangle. Nice daytime restaurant on the field. Two miles to Williamsburg.
>> -- Others on 'southside' (Norfolk [airlines] plus smaller Chesapeake
>> (CPK), Hampton Roads (PVG), & Suffolk (SFQ)
>>
>> Going south?
>> -- stop at Ocracoke (W95); it's a regular for lunch
>> ---- 1/2 mile walk to food at Howard's Pub
>
> Thanks for the tips, George.
>
> We're in Beckley, W.V. as I'm typing this -- nice airport, nice town.
> Unfortunately the rental car places at the airport close early on
> Sundays, so we had to catch a cab into town -- $35 one way! I thought
> I was in Chicago all over again...

I just took a look at Beckley's aerial view and it appears that there
was an old airport just a couple of miles due west of the existing one.
Maybe it is just two crossed roads, but it looks suspiciously like two
former runways, one which is now a road and the other appears overgrown.

How do you like those hills? A little bit of a change from Iowa, eh?

Matt

On 2007-03-10, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.

If the wind's up any when you arrive at First Flight, be prepared for a
fair bit of turbulence on short final and on departure, and rapidly
shifting winds. Last time I was there (2002), the airfield was in a cut
out in the trees, and since it was reasonably windy, it made for an
interesting approach and landing.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

"Dylan Smith" > wrote in message
...
> On 2007-03-10, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> So, we're looking at heading to Kitty Hawk, North Carolina instead.
>
> If the wind's up any when you arrive at First Flight, be prepared for a
> fair bit of turbulence on short final and on departure, and rapidly
> shifting winds. Last time I was there (2002), the airfield was in a cut
> out in the trees, and since it was reasonably windy, it made for an
> interesting approach and landing.

Indeed. I forgot about that. The wind is usually strong, with a large
crosswind component. The wind will suddenly stop, nearly, at treetop level.
The trees are a dense stand of pine trees, and let very little wind get past
them.
--
Jim in NC

Yep, that's been my experience, too. Especially true landing on runway
2 and when the wind is out of an easterly direction. And I think may
have been the wind for today - but by now I hope Jay already knows about
all this.

Warner-Robbins has a good aviation museum.

Jerry in Western NC

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> The museum at P-cola is nice, but (IMO) it is the only
>> reason to visit the
>> city. For a family, even an aviation family, there may
>> be better
>> destinations unless you're gonna be in the area anyway.
>> For instance, the
>> Air Force Museum at Warner Robbins, GA (Near Macon) is
>> 2nd only to the Air
>> Force museum in terms of USAF (and AAC) aircraft on
>> display. And it is
>> closer to Charleston and Savannah.
>
> I've always wanted to visit Warner-Robbins, as my parents
> were
> stationed there for a year during World War II. This was
> pre-air
> conditioning, and my mom always spoke of the area with
> both affection
> and repulsion. (My dad, a "90-day-wonder", had little
> time to worry
> about the weather.)
>
>> And, if you go to Warner Robbins, you can turn the trip
>> back north, visit
>> the Aircraft Spruce store at Falcon Field near Atlanta,
>> head NW to the Space
>> and Rocket museum at Huntsville, Alabama to see the only
>> erected (IIRC)
>> Saturn rocket in existance.
>
> Cool! Thanks for the suggestion. We're outta here in
> about an
> hour...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

I just talked with Jay. He took the group's advice to heart and said they
are having a great time in NC & SC. After visiting Kill Devil Hills & Kitty
Hawk, they're now at Myrtle Beach, SC enjoying temps in the 80's, great
seafood, and a great ocean view hotel.

He asked me to thank those who recommended Ocracoke Island and Howard's Pub.
After initial thoughts of their husband/pilot/fearless leader loosing his
mind, he said the family all agreed that Howard's Pub was well worth the
trouble.

Jim

> I just talked with Jay. He took the group's advice to heart and said they
> are having a great time in NC & SC. After visiting Kill Devil Hills & Kitty
> Hawk, they're now at Myrtle Beach, SC enjoying temps in the 80's, great
> seafood, and a great ocean view hotel.

Myrtle Beach is awesome! And it's been a great journey, thus far,
living the life of "aviation gypsies"...

Our first night was in Beckley, West Virginia, where we stayed at a
fairly forgettable "Park Inn & Suites" -- chosen because of the hotel
name's similarity to our hotel name. It wasn't a bad place -- and
they DID have free wireless internet -- but the $35 cab rides (each
way) really sucked.

Next morning we launched bright and early for First Flight (Kill Devil
Hills), and, wow, what an experience. To land where it all began,
after a nice, long cross country flight, with that beautiful, immense
monument beside us, to walk the field where the very first powered
flights took place -- it was all very special, and I had chills the
whole time. But not from the cold. (Although it *was* cool, with a
brisk, steady wind off the ocean -- precisely why the Wrights chose
this location...)

Then, after cleaning out their gift shop (for our Wright Brothers
Suite) it was down the long spit of land called the barrier islands to
Ocracoke Island, for a fantastic lunch at Howard's Pub. I had a great
crab cake sandwich, Mary had some fabulous flounder -- and we all
enjoyed their home-made clam chowder. It's a bit of a hike to the
bar (and it seemed longer, with my kids whining all the way), but
everyone agreed it was well worth the effort.

Incidentally, at Ocracoke there was a broken (like, in half!) Cirrus
SR-22 alongside the runway. Dunno what happened, but it had police
tape all around it. No one was around to ask, but the plane was a
complete write off. Musta been a WILD landing.

The barrier islands are stunningly beautiful to follow, and we did,
all the way down the coast to Beaufort, NC for gas. What a great
airport and FBO! We chatted for 30 minutes or so with the airport
manager, and we had a good laugh because we soon discoverd that we
were all fighting the same damned political battles back home in Iowa
regarding airport operations. They've apparently got some real
whiners in their town that have basically made it mandatory not to use
two (of the six) runways, or bear the wrath of several Noise Nazis.
Thank goodness we don't have THAT in Iowa City, at least not to that
degree.

By now, we had flown many hours, and were starting to feel like real
aviation gysies, having NO idea where we were going next. With no
preference one way or the other, we asked them where THEY would go for
the next few days, if they were looking for fun and sun. Everyone in
the FBO agreed that Myrtle Beach, SC was the perfect combination of
beach, sun, and fun things to do -- so, we launched south once again.

Which is where we have been for the last 36 hours. We spent all day
baking on the beach in 80 degree sunshine, oogling the nubile young
Spring Breakers, and we found a hotel suite (at the "BayWatch Resort")
in North Myrtle Beach -- with an 18th-floor ocean view -- for just $93
per night! We're at the airport right now (using their free internet
-- the stupid hotel has TWO computers for 525 room!), checking the
weather, trying to figure out how far we will make it back toward Iowa
tomorrow before hitting the crap weather that is forecast...

We might end up in Nashville, or maybe Chatanooga. We don't really
care, to be honest -- cuz we don't have to be home till Saturday, and
we're having a great time everywhere we go!

Thanks, everyone, for the great recommendations!
--
Jay Honeck
North Myrtle Beach, SC
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> How do you like those hills? A little bit of a change from Iowa, eh?

The hills were lovely. Nothing, compared to flying the Rockies -- but
still enough terrain to make it interesting. I would not want to have
an engine failure in that area...
--
Jay Honeck
North Myrtle Beach, SC
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

> Yep, that's been my experience, too. Especially true landing on runway
> 2 and when the wind is out of an easterly direction. And I think may
> have been the wind for today - but by now I hope Jay already knows about
> all this.

Yep, we landed on Rwy 2, and it was interesting, even though the wind
was pretty much right down the runway. Very squirrelly winds all the
way down.

And I didn't help myself any by screwing up the approach. Coming from
the NW, that is one HARD airport to see! I actually entered downwind
using my GPS moving map, as I still was unable to see the danged
runway -- although (of course) I *could* see the monument. I didn't
actually see the runway, carved out of those tall trees, until I was
on base leg, and ended up turning to final WAY too late.

I salvaged it, but it wasn't pretty. Heck, until we spotted the
runway, I thought maybe we were supposed to land in the grass at the
foot of the monument!

(Note to self for future: Check out area in GoogleMaps before flying
in... :-)
--
Jay Honeck
North Myrtle Beach, SC
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" > wrote:
> Incidentally, at Ocracoke there was a broken (like, in half!) Cirrus
> SR-22 alongside the runway. Dunno what happened, but it had police
> tape all around it. No one was around to ask, but the plane was a
> complete write off. Musta been a WILD landing.

Four people were on board, no injuries. It's in the NTSB prelim database:

IDENTIFICATION
Regis#: 313L Make/Model: SR22 Description: SR-22
Date: 03/11/2007 Time: 1730

Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
City: OCRACOKE State: NC Country: US

DESCRIPTION
ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN AROUND
AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC

INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 0
# Crew: 1 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Pass: 3 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:
# Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk:

WEATHER: KHSE 111749Z AUTO 03009G18KT 360V070 10SM BKN022 12/04 A3024

OTHER DATA
Activity: Pleasure Phase: Landing Operation: OTHER

Departed: NORFOLK, VA Dep Date: Dep. Time:
Destination: OCRACOKE, NC Flt Plan: Wx Briefing:
Last Radio Cont:
Last Clearance:

FAA FSDO: GREENSBORO, NC (SO05) Entry date: 03/12/2007

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> How do you like those hills? A little bit of a change from Iowa, eh?
>
> The hills were lovely. Nothing, compared to flying the Rockies -- but
> still enough terrain to make it interesting. I would not want to have
> an engine failure in that area...

Yes, I think of that every flight as I live a couple of hundred miles
north of there, but have similar terrain although the mountains are a
little bigger and the valleys a little wider.

Matt

Jim Logajan wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote:
>> Incidentally, at Ocracoke there was a broken (like, in half!) Cirrus
>> SR-22 alongside the runway. Dunno what happened, but it had police
>> tape all around it. No one was around to ask, but the plane was a
>> complete write off. Musta been a WILD landing.
>
> Four people were on board, no injuries. It's in the NTSB prelim database:
>
> IDENTIFICATION
> Regis#: 313L Make/Model: SR22 Description: SR-22
> Date: 03/11/2007 Time: 1730
>
> Event Type: Incident Highest Injury: None Mid Air: N Missing: N
> Damage: Unknown
>
> LOCATION
> City: OCRACOKE State: NC Country: US
>
> DESCRIPTION
> ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN AROUND
> AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC

Amazing a crash that benign could break an airplane in half. Makes me
question how crash worthy those plastic airplanes really are!

Matt

On 2007-03-14, Matt Whiting > wrote:
> Jim Logajan wrote:
>> DESCRIPTION
>> ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN AROUND
>> AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC
>
> Amazing a crash that benign could break an airplane in half. Makes me
> question how crash worthy those plastic airplanes really are!

Well, not really - the report doesn't really indicate whether it was
particularly benign or not. Generally, a crashworthy plane will crumple
and break up to absorb the energy. An uncrashworthy plane would not,
transferring the forces to the occupants.

If the loss of control and collision with trees was at 50mph, I'd
imagine it'd break any light plane in half, especially if the plane hit the
tree side on at any kind of speed.

--
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.
Oolite-Linux: an Elite tribute: http://oolite-linux.berlios.de

Dylan Smith wrote:
> On 2007-03-14, Matt Whiting > wrote:
>> Jim Logajan wrote:
>>> DESCRIPTION
>>> ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN
>>> AROUND AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC
>>
>> Amazing a crash that benign could break an airplane in half. Makes
>> me question how crash worthy those plastic airplanes really are!
>
> Well, not really - the report doesn't really indicate whether it was
> particularly benign or not. Generally, a crashworthy plane will
> crumple and break up to absorb the energy. An uncrashworthy plane
> would not, transferring the forces to the occupants.
>
> If the loss of control and collision with trees was at 50mph, I'd
> imagine it'd break any light plane in half, especially if the plane
> hit the tree side on at any kind of speed.

Agreed, add to that the fact that the plane broke in half and there were no
fatalities says something for the design.

On 2007-03-13, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> I just talked with Jay. He took the group's advice to heart and said they
>> are having a great time in NC & SC. After visiting Kill Devil Hills & Kitty
>> Hawk, they're now at Myrtle Beach, SC enjoying temps in the 80's, great
>> seafood, and a great ocean view hotel.

> We might end up in Nashville, or maybe Chatanooga. We don't really
> care, to be honest -- cuz we don't have to be home till Saturday, and

Well, if there is even a slight chance at Chatanooga, do it! There is an
awesome acquarium there with it's beautiful buildings near the river. Quite
a treat to see and allow plenty of hours to do so - you'll need it. If
possible stay in the Holiday Inn made out of the old grand central train
station, complete with the old trains to go inside and see. This city is
quite a treat just for those two items above.

....Edwin
--
__________________________________________________ __________
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward, for there you have been, there you long to
return."-da Vinci http://bellsouthpwp2.net/e/d/edwinljohnson

Dylan Smith wrote:
> On 2007-03-14, Matt Whiting > wrote:
>> Jim Logajan wrote:
>>> DESCRIPTION
>>> ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN AROUND
>>> AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC
>> Amazing a crash that benign could break an airplane in half. Makes me
>> question how crash worthy those plastic airplanes really are!
>
> Well, not really - the report doesn't really indicate whether it was
> particularly benign or not. Generally, a crashworthy plane will crumple
> and break up to absorb the energy. An uncrashworthy plane would not,
> transferring the forces to the occupants.
>
> If the loss of control and collision with trees was at 50mph, I'd
> imagine it'd break any light plane in half, especially if the plane hit the
> tree side on at any kind of speed.
>

Benign in the sense that there were no injuries.

Crumple, yes, break, no. A break tends to impose very high acceleration
prior to the break and which time the acceleration changes dramatically.
That is NOT good crashworthiness.

Matt

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> Dylan Smith wrote:
>> On 2007-03-14, Matt Whiting > wrote:
>>> Jim Logajan wrote:
>>>> DESCRIPTION
>>>> ACFT ON LANDING ROLLOUT, WENT OFF THE RUNWAY, INTO THE GRASS, SPUN
>>>> AROUND AND STRUCK SOME SMALL TREES, OCRACOKE, NC
>>> Amazing a crash that benign could break an airplane in half. Makes
>>> me question how crash worthy those plastic airplanes really are!
>> Well, not really - the report doesn't really indicate whether it was
>> particularly benign or not. Generally, a crashworthy plane will
>> crumple and break up to absorb the energy. An uncrashworthy plane
>> would not, transferring the forces to the occupants.
>>
>> If the loss of control and collision with trees was at 50mph, I'd
>> imagine it'd break any light plane in half, especially if the plane
>> hit the tree side on at any kind of speed.
>
> Agreed, add to that the fact that the plane broke in half and there were no
> fatalities says something for the design.

Yes, it says the design likely broke at very low levels of force.

Matt

> Well, if there is even a slight chance at Chatanooga, do it! There is an
> awesome acquarium there with it's beautiful buildings near the river. Quite
> a treat to see and allow plenty of hours to do so - you'll need it. If
> possible stay in the Holiday Inn made out of the old grand central train
> station, complete with the old trains to go inside and see. This city is
> quite a treat just for those two items above.

Dang it, maybe we can hit Chatanooga next month, when we're on our way
to Sun N Fun.

We launched this morning with the intent of making it as far west as
possible, so that we could sit out the big storms that are heading
east, hopefully in a place with plenty of things to see and do.
Flight Service gave us little hope of making it much past mid-
Tennessee before the crap hit the fan.

After lunch in Huntsville, AL (Madison County Executive) at Posey's, a
little home-grown place that we discovered the last time we were here,
back in '03, we checked the weather and decided to keep heading west
for Memphis -- a place we've always wanted to visit.

En route we never ran into anything lower than 7 miles visibility, and
were fat dumb and happy droning along up at 6500 feet, cranking the XM
tunes. It was another marvelous day of flying...

We over-flew Chatanooga when it became obvious that Memphis was easily
doable -- XM satellite weather is AWESOME for trips of this nature. We
decided to land at Olive Branch, a very nice airport under the Class C
veil of Memphis International. The guys there were great, helping us
line up a rental car and a decent motel room. We found our way to a
generic-but-nice Holiday Inn Express (yes, the same brand we've made
fun of!), and are planning on hitting Beale Street tonight for some
hot blues, and then we'll do Graceland tomorrow for our Elvis fix...

Anyone got any other suggestions to see in Memphis? We've got all day
Thursday, and I don't want to spend all day in Elvis-Land...
--
Jay Honeck
Currently in Memphis, TN
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Matt Whiting" > wrote

> Yes, it says the design likely broke at very low levels of force.

Planes are designed to be strong in head on collisions, or belly hitting
collisions. They were not designed to be T-boned by a tree.
--
Jim in NC

On Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:45:00 GMT, Matt Whiting > I
would not want to have
>> an engine failure in that area...
>
>Yes, I think of that every flight as I live a couple of hundred miles
>north of there, but have similar terrain although the mountains are a
>little bigger and the valleys a little wider.

So do I-- in central PA. But I recall flying over WV, south of
Clarksburg IIRC, that was a lot worse than any thing around here.

The "valleys," if they could be called that, seemed no wider than the
crooked little two-lane roads that wound between the big lumps.

vince norris

On 2007-03-14, Matt Whiting > wrote:
> Crumple, yes, break, no. A break tends to impose very high acceleration
> prior to the break and which time the acceleration changes dramatically.
> That is NOT good crashworthiness.

A break would be extremely hard to avoid when being T-boned by a solid
object. It says less about the crashworthiness of the design than the
fact that everyone walked away.

I have some video of a Robinson R-44 crashing, and the tailboom breaking
off. They all walked away from that one, too. The fact that the R-44
broke in half in one particular incident says nothing about its general
crashworthiness, either. The helicopter also experienced a point load
halfway down the fuselage.

I also have some video of the rear half of the fuselage (and entire
empennage) breaking off an (IIRC) MD-80 on merely a hard landing. They
all walked (or hobbled) away from that one too. The crew didn't even
know the back end of their aircraft had fallen off until they exited.

Any light aircraft, when hitting a narrow, solid object on the fuselage
side at even a moderate sideways speed will likely either wrap around
it or break in half. Light aircraft are *weak* side on - just take a
look inside the tail cone and it becomes easy to see in which direction
a light aicraft is likely to be strong and in which it's likely to be weak.

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